On this episode Josh speaks with Kisma Orbovich, CEO of Kisma Productions, LLC. They talk about mindset and things leaders can do to foster a healthy mindset.
Kisma Orbovich, The Prosperity Code Mentor, helps top industry professionals awaken their inner wealth intelligence and magnetize their money. She fuses spirituality, energy and higher thought for optimum human performance.
Kisma co-host of the Illumination Podcast and founder, CEO of Illumination Academy-an online and offline training company that helps people reach their full potential in life and business.
She also spent a great part of her life as a classical flutist performing on stages all over the world. This unusual combination gives her a unique insight into mindset, intuition and perseverance as it relates to the human experience.
In today’s episode you’ll learn:
- What is a prosperity code mentor?
- What is an energetic container of your business?
- How to set and achieve goals?
- How to ask the right questions?
- How important is a mindset to prosper?
Narrator: Welcome to The Sustainable Business Radio Show podcast where you’ll learn not only how to create a sustainable business but you’ll also learn the secrets of creating extraordinary value within your business and your life. In The Sustainable Business, we focus on what it’s going to take for you to take your successful business and make it economically and personally successful. Your host, Josh Patrick, is going to help us through finding great thought leaders as well as providing insights he’s learned through his 40 years of owning, running, planning and thinking about what it takes to make a successful business sustainable.
Josh: Hey, how are you today? This is Josh Patrick. You’re at The Sustainable Business podcast.
My guest today is Kisma Orbovich. Kisma is a prosperity code mentor. She helps top industry professionals awaken their inner wealth, intelligence, and magnetize money. She’s a co-host of the Illumination podcast and CEO of Illumination Academy. Before we go any further, we might as well bring Kisma on and let her talk for herself because it’s really boring when I talk about it.
Kisma: Hey, Josh. How are you? It’s so good to be here.
Josh: Thanks, Kisma. Thanks a lot for joining us today. What is a prosperity code mentor?
Kisma: I love that. I love that you ask that. Basically, what I do is, I do have this ability to awaken what I call inner wealth intelligence. It’s that ability to see prosperity, wealth, health, love, spirituality – all of the aspects of prosperity from the inside out, and to be able to discover what might be holding it up, what might be blocking it. And then, to solve and resolve that.
Josh: What kind of things do you find, with business owners that are holding up their prosperity thoughts?
Kisma: That’s a great question. One of the big things I’ve come across, with a few of my corporate clients lately, is the worry that as they make more money, they will be more tired. They will have less time. Something else in their life will break. And that, to me, is a limitation. There’s a different way to view how the prosperity enters. And it’s kind of that thing – work smart, not hard. But it will sit there in one’s brain as a worry. And it’ll show up as these little blocks or– I don’t know if you’re familiar with the book, The Big Leap and upper limiter as Gay Hendricks refers, that just keeps us right under the financial glass ceiling.
Josh: So, my experience is, the more money you make, the more time you have.
Kisma: Good for you [laughs]. That’s awesome.
Josh: I know it’s really true because when we work with people- I mean, if you’re not making enough money, it’s typically you’re doing too much of low-quality work or low-level work in your company. I mean, way too much time doing stuff that somebody else can do for $15, $20 or $25 an hour. And you’re not spending enough time working on the $300-, the $400–, or $500- or $5000‑per‑hour work.
Josh: If you start doing $5000-per-hour-work– and by the way, there’s not a lot of hours you need to do that to be really successful. Instead of actually losing time, you gain tons of time.
Kisma: Absolutely. I love that.
And I look at it, possibly, from the quantum perspective that we are time. We are space. So, as we are present in the moment of that $5000-an-hour action or more, and as we’re present to know what does need to be removed? And we have the willingness to move it over. Then, we amplify that financial gain and we continue to have more energy. And, like you said, more time and more time to enjoy life.
Josh: Where I see people get stuck, on a regular basis, is what we call stage three in creating Cash Flow Freedom. Stage three, basically, is I’m learning how to delegate and it didn’t go right so I stop. So, what do you say to people who said– and you know they need to learn to delegate. You know they learned to trust. They need to build a culture of mistakes which means mistakes are okay as long as we learn from them, but they end up a complete failure at doing that sort of stuff. How do you get them past that?
Kisma: One of the things I look at is, life is a series of experiences. The quality of our experiences will determine the overall quality of our life. And those experiences actually change through perception. So, as you mentioned, if one fails at bringing in a team member or delegating work, if the perception remains attached to, “I failed. It’s never going to work”, they are tethered to a past experience and a negative aspect of that experience.
When they can pivot that perception to, “Okay, what needs to be different?” You know, just asking those questions. “Where did I miss? Where did they miss?” The past is for learning. And then, to reboot. And it really becomes that diligence and willingness to build the team, have a relationship. And I also believe, hold the company culture.
I have seen, as well, people delegate too much and take the vision out of it. They’re no longer at that 30,000-foot view. And they’re no longer inside seen. And then, things break. So it really– to me, it’s having that total perspective of the business, of the team holding that leadership culture and be willing to reboot and re-ignite.
Josh: Well, holding that leadership culture seems, to me, something that should never be delegated.
Kisma: Ever. Ever.
Josh: I mean, that’s something that–
Kisma: I agree.
Josh: –you know, in my experience, the business should reflect the values of the owner. And the owner needs to make those into operational principles that live within the company. And probably the main job they have, once they’ve gotten the cashflow freedom or on the way to cashflow freedom, is they need to hold the space for those values to be true. Otherwise, people don’t know what they’re signing on for.
Kisma: Absolutely. I also take it a little bit more into, you might say, the woo – for your listeners that might not– familiar with this, but I call it an energetic container. But you’re right, the leaders are holding the space.
We know that, as humans, we feel things. We know there’s an energy. I mean, we might not be able to see it but we can’t see Wednesday either. And Wednesday happens every single week. So, there is an energy and our business has an energy. As the leader, we hold that container. Whether it’s through the mindset, whether it’s through the culture, the business will get fueled from the leader and also give that back to the people that work there and the clients that they serve.
Josh: I actually believe that the value system in a business needs to go – not just to the employees, but needs to go to the customers. It needs to go to the suppliers. Basically, any part that touches a company, needs to be in alignment with the values of the company for that company to be successful.
Kisma: I so, agree. You just painted the picture of a really beautiful, energetic container where everyone is in alignment. And, very likely, everyone from the leaders to people working within the company, to vendors, to clients are then making in impact in the world.
Josh: I want to bring a word up to you which I think is probably a key. Now, I’ve really never thought about this in this context but it’s the word vulnerability. Most business owners I know, whether they’re women or they’re men, are pretty macho about the lack of vulnerability they show within their organizations. They’re afraid to be wrong. They’re afraid to make mistakes or at least admit their mistakes. They often end up blaming those around them or justifying their actions and not taking responsibility for what happens. How do you get somebody to the point where they become what I call super responsible?
Kisma: I love that question. To me, It’s the ultimate. We design our lives. We have the ability to be an architect – whether it’s in our personal life or our business life. And the choices, “Are we creating a B-movie or are we creating a masterpiece?” The only way to create a masterpiece is to be able to hold that accountability for our own choices and decisions and to constantly and consistently ask ourselves, “What did I do to attract this?”
The tricky thing there is to not do it out of a lot of judgment, or “I failed” or, “I messed up.” It’s this word – intellect. It’s that ability to discern without a huge emotional attachment so that we can’t right the ship or make that next right decision. And when I say right decision, I mean, facing forward, “What’s the ideal? What’s the ideal of the company and the people?”
So, if the leader is constantly blaming others, they are missing a golden opportunity of self-reflection and self-introspection which is the very thing that will elevate them into a true leader of always of being, doing and having.
Josh: So you could almost say that the quality of my actions is a dependency on the quality of the questions I’m asking myself?
Kisma: Absolutely. When we ask those good questions, then we are able to observe and discern, and then decide what action needs to be different and what mindset needs to be different.
Josh: So, I wake up one day and I decide–
By the way, this actually did happen to me. I was about 28 or 29 years old when this happened. I’m now 65 so it was a while ago. So, I wake up one day and I say, “What I’m doing is not working and I better do something different or my company’s not going to be here two years from now – maybe even one year from now.” What do you say to somebody like that? And how do you get them to start moving towards having a mindset that’s open versus one that’s closed?
Kisma: The very fact that you asked that question meant that you stepped into an elevated way of being because you recognized something wasn’t working. So when someone comes to me, with that, the first thing I go for is, “What is it that you want?” – in the big vision, because I think that time and time again, Josh, people go into different jobs, businesses, relationships and they don’t really know what they want. And so, they’re manifesting another slightly woo word haphazardly.
And the moment we get clear on what it is we want, we’re able to define, “What’s the next required action to get there? What’s the required mindset to get there? What’s the energetic container we need to get there?” And that clarity – it’s a little bit like, if someone says to you, “Hey, I need to get to the library in town.” And you say, “Start at Main Street, at the gas station” but they don’t know where Main Street and the gas station is, it’s impossible to get to the library.
We’ve got to start with that core of what it is we want to create. As close to it as possible. Will it evolve? Yes, always.
And one of the things I see is that people have so much information coming in that they’re opening up these mental loops and emotional loops, and they’re getting tired, and they’re getting distracted, and they’re not able to dial it in into their purpose, into their mission – business or life.
Josh: I’m wondering about something by you because I had actually– just last hour, I had this conversation with the marketing team that I’ve got, that I’ve hired. And we’re working on– you know, they’re trying to figure out who I am and what I do and all that kind of good stuff.
Kisma: That’s always fun.
Josh: Yeah. And, you know, a question from there, they asked me what my goals are. And I said, “Better.”
Kisma: Oh, better. Just better [laughs]?
Josh: Yeah. Well, here’s my problem with it. Now, I do have minimums. They said, “Okay, we need to produce this much as a minimum. Otherwise, it’s an economic failure.” But the real truth is I like better more than a numeric goal because better doesn’t limit what I can do.
Kisma: This is true. And it might work for you, as the human that you are and the experience that you have. However, when someone comes to me and says, “I just– man, I want my income to be better next month.” And I go, “Well, better could be a dollar. It could be $5. It could be a thousand, right?”
So, often times, I find that when the brain is given a number and it’s able to see that, envision it, and understand, “This is the goal.” Yeah, here’s the tricky thing, to not be attached because attachment, in the human being, creates so much agitation in the mind. And where you talk about mindset, when the mind is agitated, it tips the mindset, right?
Josh: I want to push back a little bit on this because I have a story for you.
Josh: I have stories.
Kisma: I love stories [laughs].
Josh: When you get as old as I am, you have stories for everything.
Here’s the story, I used to own a vending and food service company. We fed people in factories. You’ve probably seen those glass-front snack machines that have candies, and chips, and all pastries and all that kind of junk food in there. We were junk food merchants.
Well, our average service when we started an improvement project was about $45 per service. Over the course of the next year, we went to $145 per service. Now, our minimum was $45 but we didn’t have a maximum, we just said better. And we would have never reached $145 per service because nobody in their right mind would say, “We can go from $45 to $145.” But we did it and we did it simply by just making a couple of very simple changes where we did experiments. And this is where my issue is around having numeric goals. When you say, “Okay, I want to make more money.” I might say, “What is the minimum amount that would make you happy?”
Kisma: It’s a great way to put it. I think what you did, you stayed in the energy of better. It was always like, “What can be better? What can be better?” And that, in itself, will work because it’s like a deeper path – better, better. And it isn’t tethered to money or to a number.
Some people will need to see that number. They will just need to have it in their mind or their goals or whatever. You work with better.
Josh: And that’s fine because we make a minimum.
Josh: Not into the goal.
Kisma: Mm-hmm, can be.
I’ve seen people do both. I’ve seen people set the goal. I have done it myself and been like, “Okay. Let’s do this.” And then just – I call it an ideal.
Let me also put in – since we’re talking about money, I do see that most people on the planet want to be happy and they want to create money because there is freedom in money. Money is a great energy of the planet. Yet, when the money owns us and we don’t own the money, that’s when things go sideways.
What I hear in you is there’s this essence of “Let’s make it better, guys” Like, let’s go. And you’re able to drive that business and create that success. It works for you, like don’t change it now. Tell that marketing team. Stick with it.
I have found some people like to have the number that they toss up. It’s like this ideal. And then they’re not tethered to it. They go. They take the action. They serve their clients. They do what they’re here to do. And then, they can use that number as a metric and kind of reboot and say, “Okay. What needs to change?”
One of the things I’ll share that I have seen with – especially some retail businesses that I work with, they’ll get into the mindset of like, ”Well, this month was great. So, next month isn’t going to be so good.” Where does that come from?
Yes, business is profit and loss. But I’m like, “No, no, no. Let’s not do that.” Like, let’s not– like, yeah, there’s the flow, right? Profit and loss. When we understand that, we have a healthy aspect and perception of business. But when we think it’s going to go strikingly up and then down, that’s when I see burnout happens. That’s when people get on the emotional roller coaster and they’re not able to manage things and get burned out.
Josh: We call that stage 2 on the cash flow journey. Is that it’s the hills and valleys where you either have free cash flow or nothing. And–
Kisma: Oh, golly [laughs].
Josh: It’s a stage that almost all businesses go through.
Kisma: Yeah, I can totally see that.
Josh: And there are specific things that have to happen to get out of that stage. And part of it is the belief system, by the way. I mean, the biggest belief – for service businesses, it’s interesting, is that they think they have 2080 hours of billable time they can sell a year. The truth is they have 1000 hours a year they can sell.
Kisma: Yeah, right.
Josh: If I can help and go into that mindset, to realize 1000 hours is booked full, they change their thought process around everything in their business including what do they have to charge and who do they have to serve.
Kisma: Exactly. That’s such a great way to put. I love that.
Josh: It’s an interesting sort of thing is that you find that people get focused, a lot of times, on asking themselves the wrong question.
Kisma: I think you’re absolutely correct. The wrong question or– was it Voltaire that said, “Look at the man’s question. Not his answers.” You know, what are the questions that we ask? And when we can ask really good questions of ourself and others, that’s when the golden gems come.
Josh: And so, I think the best managers and the best leaders never give answers, they just ask questions.
Kisma: Oh, it’s so good because it unfolds, right?
Josh: I call it the democratic method of management.
Kisma: Yeah, that’s great. I love it. You’re such a philosopher.
Josh: I read too much.
Kisma: Reading is good. Oh, man, reading is so amazing.
What are you reading right now? Not to get off topic but–
Josh: I am just starting– it’s a book on systems theory, actually, is what I’m reading right now. And I’m going to listen to one of Brendon Burchard’s books because he’s always fun to listen to.
Kisma: Nice. He’s always fun to listen to. Yeah, for sure.
Josh: I read pretty widely on stuff. I find that organizational development is a really interesting thing. It’s a school of thought that doesn’t really take into account much with what you’re doing. Although there are people out there who do at a major level. But it’s more about the stuff that you do to move an organization forward. And to me, the stuff is part of it, but it’s also – what is your belief about what you want. And, for me, my goal in life is to have a good life.
Kisma: It’s a beautiful goal. I mean, isn’t that it – a good life? Like that’s what I think most people look for.
Josh: There was a guy named Brian Mayne who is a Brit I met several years ago who does a thing called goal mapping. His method of goals is not numeric. It’s basically, “What’s your goal in life? Well, to have a good life. Okay, great. What has to happen? Who’s going to be involved? Why is it important? And what do you need to do to get there?” The addition here which is different than almost any goal setting process I’ve ever seen – “Who is going to help you?”
Kisma: Very important.
Josh: Because we got the what, the why, but we don’t have the who.
Kisma: Great question to ask.
And I think, too, for any entrepreneur or business owner, “Who’s on the team?” definitely can affect the overall energetic container presence of the company, absolutely.
Josh: We have time for one more question. And this is going to be completely off topic but how does being a classical flautist help you in your work?
Kisma: Oh, thank you for asking that.
I developed a work ethic that was incredible as a musician. It’s on of the most competitive fields out there. And so, when I went to Conservatory, I was up at 7:30 AM practicing before I went to theory class. I just knew there was this certain amount of effort I needed to put in in order to be the very best I could be. So, over the years, being able to practice and practice wisely, perform on stage, have a really strong mindset around performance, not have nerves, and get over what people thought of me because, at the end of the day, when someone can walk on stage and just do it for them, there’s a big freedom there.
And when I started to open my first business outside of music, it was a yoga studio, and all of my music friends said, “You’re crazy. You’re a flute player. What are you doing?” And I said, “If I can get a job at an orchestra, which I have three times, I can run a business.” And so, really, that core discipline and being meticulous in what I do has really served my businesses.
Hey, Kisma, unfortunately, we are out of time. I’m going to bet people listing are going to want to find you. How would they go about doing that?
Kisma: Absolutely. They can go to my website which is kismaawake.com. That’s K‑I‑S‑M‑A‑A‑W‑A‑K‑E.com. We’ve got our Illumination podcast listed there. There’s a free course called Mantra Snacks which is basically a free audio on living life stress free.
I have an offer for you. Last January, I just published my first book. It’s named Sustainable: A Fable About Creating a Personally and Economically Sustainable Business. You can get it Amazon if you want, in the Kindle version and the print version. But, if you go to my site, which is sustainablethebook.com, you also get a chance to have a free 20-minute strategy call with me. And I wrote a 37-page ebook on how to implement all of the stuff we talk about in the book.
This is Josh Patrick. You’ve been with Kisma Orbovich. This is the Sustainable Business. I hope to see you back here really soon.
Narrator: You’ve been listening to The Sustainable Business podcast where we ask the question, “What would it take for your business to still be around a hundred years from now?” If you like what you’ve heard and want more information, please contact Josh Patrick at 802-846-1264 ext 2, or visit us on our website at www.askjoshpatrick.com, or you can send Josh an email at email@example.com.
Thanks for listening. We hope to see you at The Sustainable Business in the near future.